Actually she asked “Do you believe that Mary had other children?”

I wrote the following reply…

————snip from email————–

Short answer… yes.

Actually I never gave it much thought because of this passage in Matthew 13:

54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. 55 "Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor." 58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

and this passage from Galatians 1:

18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles–only James, the Lord’s brother.

Seems pretty clear to me… and I think it is reasonable to believe that he was a leader of the early Jerusalem church and most likely wrote the book of James.

However… when you asked me I remembered that you mentioned before about being Roman Catholic. And… I’m not that up on the particulars of Roman Catholic doctrine, but I figured that Mary having other kids might be a problem due to her supposed perpetual virginity.

So… I looked around a bit and probably didn’t find anything that you haven’t already seen, but I did like how this guy put it.

He admits that there are some translation issues and historical issues that we might quibble over when addressing the question of if Jesus had brothers and sisters or not… but comes to the same conclusion as I do… that Mary and Joseph probably had a pile of kids just like all the other 1st century Jewish families did.

————snip from email————–

My friend wrote back with a bit of discussion… a few insults regarding my seeming inability to read long articles in one sitting (lol)… and with this link…

After reading that one… I found this one…

In the end… I just don’t see how this matters?

What am I missing?

I’m hoping that those from the area around Rome itself might jump in with a comment or two…

I know Catholics believe that Mary was sinless… but why would having other kids be a sin in any way?

Just to be clear… I’m not arguing one way or the other… I’m declaring my ignorance and apathy about this subject. I can’t see how this “doctrine” matters one way or the other to anybody… but it must be very important to be so controversial?

Any thoughts? Does this matter to you? Should it matter to me?

Am I the only expat that thinks that a successful trip to renew a passport or Alien Registration Card should result in taking the rest of the day off and celebrating with a feast at Chili’s? Successfully renewed passports for these 2 today…

I think that 3 typhoons in 3 weeks is enough. Yes… we had one 2 weeks ago… a bigger one last weekend… and a chance of another one this weekend. Please… no.

I like Facebook. In fact. I love it. I even love the “new” Facebook. This is the greatest networking app of all time… so far. Friend me, OK?

It’s a great talk in so many ways (unless you are one to throw the baby out with the bathwater) and it will be exciting to see what is discovered when they fire that baby back up again in 2009 after encountering a problem with one of its magnets a few weeks ago shortly after they fired it up. I’m sure they aren’t going to find God in the LHC tests… but this verse seems more than a little relevant.

“All the beads just randomly fell off!” says Mollie, surrounded by 1.35 billion little perler beads that used to be on the flower template that is still in her hand. Here’s Mollie with Zi-ying.

It is also an extremely ethnocentric one…

In areas of the world where Christianity was transplanted via European colonialism (USA, Australia, New Zealand, lots of others) the question is funny because Christian principles are so entrenched in laws and government and culture.

But in most parts of the world… the question is answered on a daily basis. Most people have not encountered the Bible… so when they discover it… when it is translated into their language or shared with them orally… how do they react? Do they believe? Yes… often they do.

The comedian’s question is funny to people in “post-Christian” environments… but the fact is that the truths of the Bible are often exactly what people have been waiting their lives to hear.

John Morehead just blogged about a book by Lamin Sanneh (a Gambian) entitled Whose Religion is Christianity?: The Gospel beyond the West.

Morehead’s Musings: Lamin Sanneh: Whose Religion Is Christianity?: The Gospel beyond the West

I’m always interested in this sort of discussion since Christianity is most often labeled a “western” religion. I know why it happens… but the fact is… most Christians are *not* western!

This book looks like an interesting read… and Morehead’s comments about the book are helpful and instructive.

A person sitting at his desk and staring out of the window would never be assumed to be working. No! Thinking is not equated with work. Yet, had Newton under his tree, or Archimedes in his bathtub bought into that prejudice, some natural laws would still be up in the air, or buried under an immovable rock. Pascal’s Pensees, a work that has inspired millions, would have never been penned.

The Bible places supreme value in the thought life. “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he,” Solomon wrote. Jesus asserted that sin’s gravity lay in the idea itself, not just the act. Paul admonished the church at Philippi to have the mind of Christ, and to the same people he wrote, “Whatever is true . . . pure . . . if there be any virtue . . . think on these things.”

As one who spends a lot of time sitting at my desk and staring out the window… I’m glad that at least somebody realizes that I might still be working!

It seems like a person is measured by how busy they are these days… has it always been like that? I doubt it.

Ravi suggests 3 things to remedy the situation… I couldn’t agree more with each one. These 3 suggestions are his, the comments are mine… although you’ll probably want to read Ravi’s comments too.

Study God’s Word

It doesn’t matter if you are a Christian or not… the Bible is an amazing book and worthy of your time. I know of no other piece of literature that provokes thinking on so many subjects.

Read Great Books

I don’t remember whose it was, but I was looking at someone’s Facebook profile the other day and under favorite books they wrote something like “I don’t put much value in books, but always take time to read GQ, Details, and” something else I don’t remember. Wow… almost speechless… maybe they were kidding? I hope so.

I’ve found DailyLit to be a convenient way to get through some “Great Books”. But of course there are always libraries and garage sales!

Even if it takes you a long time… make your way through some of the “Great Books”.

Challenge the Mind

This has a lot to do with what you read, too. Don’t stop learning! Don’t be afraid to admit you were wrong about something in light of new information. Talk to people that you don’t agree with. Although it is mostly political spam these days, check out reddit.com. Read CS Lewis. Learn from Tim Keller.

For one… I’ve always shared a lot of things I like in the “Shared Items” section in the sidebar… but I think I’ll start choosing a few of those and dedicating a post to them. I don’t really have time to blog more often… to write more… to offer much commentary… but I read A LOT and some of this stuff just needs to be made more widely available and I know that some of you that read my blog will also like some things that I’m reading. I guess the fact that I’m sharing them implies that I agree in part or in whole or else feel like it is some worthy opposing view or has some other value… like FUN! so commentary isn’t always necessary… it works for Instapundit and Mr. Reynolds is doing OK. (incidentally, that is one blog I *don’t* subscribe to)

I currently have 183 subscriptions in Google Reader and I read them pretty much daily and very quickly (tip: learn the keyboard shortcuts if you need to power through lots of entries).

So anyway…here’s a recent read that deserves a bit more attention…

From Missions, Misunderstood:

My Evolution

…

I have learned to worship without music or a guy with a guitar. I have come to realize that prayer should be a two-way conversation between God and me. I’m working on reading the Bible for what it says and what the Holy Spirit illuminates to me instead of picking verses that support my arguments. I’ve altogether quit thinking of the church as a building with a paid staff and youth group games on Wednesday nights.

I came here to tell people about Jesus. Now I realize the power of publicly living out the joys and struggles of my faith. Though I still struggle, I can now see through the lies of materialism. I find my identity in Christ instead of my profession or the successes of my ministry. I’ve learned not to assume that I know what’s going on around me spiritually. I’ve come to enjoy the spirituality of conversation with believers. I’ve learned a lot from fellowship with people who don’t believe.

…

There’s more… maybe you should read it…

My list would be similar to Ernest’s… but different in details…

Joe Carter writes at Evangelical Outpost:

Indeed, every single news article focused on the political implications rather than on what it really said. Consider these headlines:

     AP: Evangelical leaders say their faith is too politicized

     USA Today: Manifesto aims to make ‘evangelical’ a less-political term

     Reuters: US evangelicals call for step back from politics

     NPR: ‘Evangelical Manifesto’ Aims to Depoliticize Religion

The media considers the term “evangelical” to be political rather than theological because of their own willful ignorance. Part of the problem is that they don’t know anyone who would consider themselves an evangelical. Even at conservative media outlets you are more likely to an atheist on staff than you are an evangelical Christian.

Who should read it?

*You* should. *Everyone* should.

If you consider yourself “evangelical” you will definitely want to.

If you used to consider yourself “evangelical” you will probably find this document a bit of an invitation back.

If you aren’t evangelical (theological liberal, non-religious, fundamentalist, atheist, sikh, pastafarian, etc) you’ll *still* want to read this document. At least to some degree, you’ve probably fallen under the media’s spell and have a whole host of issues with “evangelical” straw men and this document, while not authoritative (evangelicals have no pope and are notoriously dis-organized religion at its best – or worst), might prove useful, either to enlighten or to help you reload.

Sadly, most who see the term “evangelical” as a political term, rather than a theological term, will likely not be swayed by the document because they are too invested in it meaning the former,,, including those “evangelicals” who are most politically invested. We all know who they are and their signatures are missing from the document… make of it what you will.

So… no matter your political or religious persuasion, I suggest that you read it yourself. Don’t rely on others to tell you what it is and isn’t… this blog included! It is a 20 page PDF file and there is also a 6 page executive summary.

What Are People Saying?

Here’s a good sampling of blog posts from people who have signed the manifesto and some others. I believe that each of them has certain issues of disagreement, but find there is so much to agree with that they signed on. Each one of these signatories happily points out that this document is AN Evangelical Manifesto and not THE Evangelical Manifesto.

Mark D. Roberts – An Evangelical Manifesto: Why I Signed (Part 1)

Joe Carter – Thoughts on the Evangelical Manifesto

Josh Gelatt – Why I Signed the Evangelical Manifesto

Justin Taylor – An Evangelical Manifesto: A Summary

Darrell Bock – The Point of the Manifesto Put Simply

Dr. Bock will be in Taiwan this summer (July 7-12) as one of the main speakers for the Taiwan Missionary Fellowship Summer Conference. I look forward to discussing An Evangelical Manifesto with him at that time.

Final Comments

The document and its signatories are already being attacked by those who say it is too watered down… others say it is an attempt to supercede the Bible… other say it is a “power-grab”… others say that evangelicals are political no matter what…

meh…

I, too, could nitpick… But I like the document… I like its purpose… I like its clarity… I like its spirit… It promotes unity and yet allows for disagreement… I find some parts a little “so-so” but other parts are some of the most brilliant words that I’ve ever read about authentic Christianity.

Maybe in America people still find it valuable to argue over doctrinal issues that are of absolutely no consequence to people who don’t know of God’s love and grace… but here in Taiwan, the missionaries (for sure) and the churches (in general) find that we have far more in common with one another than we have in disagreement and it makes much more sense to stand as one than to criticize at every turn.

I’ve purposely not quoted from An Evangelical Manifesto because I’d really rather see people go read it for themselves and come to their own conclusions… reading the thoughts of the signatories linked above will help us understand the document as well – much like reading Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Washington, et al. will help us understand the US Constitution. It is always possible to quote anything out of context… so I’m going to leave the reading and quoting in your hands.

UPDATE: Mark D. Roberts has posted An Evangelical Manifesto: Why I Signed (Part 2)

This is prayer. You do not have to speak. Do not let anyone tell you that you must speak. You may speak if you wish, or you may simply listen in the darkness.

Of course… we all like it when we hear things we agree with…

I spend hours listening… sometimes I hear from God… sometimes I rest… sometimes I talk a little… sometimes I worship… I almost always feel less busy…

When a Christian book gets to be that popular… alarms should be sounding all over the place… see The Prayer of Jabez and Left Behind for examples.

I haven’t read it… but I like what I’ve seen of Mark Driscoll (for the most part) so his warning here might be valuable…

Be careful out there…

The story from the Baltimore Sun

Here’s the reaction to her plea…

Police officers waiting for other cases listened in astonishment.

The defendant’s aunt and grandmother wept openly. Even strangers sitting in the courtroom sat spellbound and dabbed at their eyes. The veteran prosecutor handling the case fought back tears and later characterized the scene as “the single most profound thing I have ever heard in a courtroom.”

And the convicted robber, Charles R. Dodson, 22, hung his bald and tattooed head as he tearfully offered apologies and begged for the forgiveness that the nun had already granted.

Asked after the hearing what had inspired her unusual approach to the man who left her with broken bones and deep bruises, unable to fully raise one arm and incapable of living on her own any longer, Sister Curran answered simply.

“The Gospel,” she said. “You hear that cliche – ‘What would Jesus do?’ – but if you live it, you’ve got to believe it.”

Micah 6:6-8 – New Living Translation
What can we bring to the LORD to make up for what we’ve done? Should we bow before God with offerings of yearling calves? Should we offer him thousands of rams and tens of thousands of rivers of olive oil? Would that please the LORD? Should we sacrifice our firstborn children to pay for the sins of our souls? Would that make him glad? No, O people, the LORD has already told you what is good, and this is what he requires: to do what is right, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

I’ve linked to Real Live Preacher before and he often shows up in my shared items in the sidebar.

But this needs more than just a link in the sidebar…

RLP invited Sarah Bickle to guest post. Here is RLP’s post introducing Sarah.

…

His name is Thomas, and he is the first-born child of Sarah and Scott. It looked like things were working out just as I hoped they would. Sarah and Scott were young and happy. They were throwing themselves into life and parenting.

And then came the news that Thomas had a brain tumor. The news was a terrible shock to all of us that know and love Sarah and Scott and Thomas. What followed was two years of treatment and hopes and disappointments and financial struggle and pain. They take turns. One works and the other stays home with Thomas. They have lived on prayers and desperation and the unexplainable energy that mothers and fathers have when their child is sick. Nothing matters but doing everything for Thomas that can be done. All else has been put on hold.

They have tried everything, but in the end it appears that cancer will end Thomas’ life just as it was getting started. They have stopped treating his illness and are seeking to give Thomas the best life possible while there is time.

Life knows nothing of fairness. I don’t mean that life understands fairness and rejects it. I mean that fairness has no part in life unless you or I are imposing it. Humans want fairness and sometimes work for it, but it is no part of the natural order. That’s one of the reasons why believing in a just and loving God is so hard for many of us.

…

Sarah’s post is here.

During Thomas’s illness, we have been cared for by a lot of people of faith. Of course they are burdened with sadness for us and for Thomas. There is a secondary grief, however, that seems to flicker behind our saddest conversations. Questions like, “Why weren’t our prayers answered?” or “Why won’t God make Thomas better?” are unsaid but present.

Those are good questions, ones that theologians have been arguing over for hundreds of years. I don’t have any good answers, but I’ve had a lot of bad ones suggested to me since Thomas became ill.

…

So this is my theory: Death is a mystery. Even for those who believe we’ll meet again in the sky, suffering and death are scary and sad. A thousand years may be a day for God; but for you and me, the space between the difficult now and the glorious hereafter is an awfully long time.

Interestingly, my bravest friends, be they Christian pastors or confirmed heathens, have tended to explain the least. Instead, they have quietly anointed us with their kindnesses. They have prepared meals for us in the presence of our bitter enemy. They are holding our hands as we walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death.

They have been, I mean, like Christ. We’re all scared as hell, but I think this is the best we can do.

I can’t imagine the pain…

In trying to understand suffering, I recommend some solitude… the last 5 chapters of Job… Michael Card’s The Way of Wisdom… CS Lewis (The Problem of Pain and A Grief Observed)… Rich Mullins’ Hard to Get and Hold Me Jesus…

As Sarah said… “Death is a mystery”.